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PostSubject: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:25 pm

I am aware that this site has been up for a very brief stint so far, but I would like to go ahead and get a topic started for a continuing storyline to be set in motion. As I understand this factor, I also understand that there are no "truly" Dwarven societies created within the forums so my idea as to work our (myself and other Dwarves) way around this would be to write an outpost in the Briar Hills of Kara of the Open Terrain. The reason I suggest the outpost here, is because I've been talking to Ralaeth via Chat and have found that the Briar Hills of Kara are the closest place currently established on the site to the mountains where Dwarves should/would thrive.

Truth be told, I've come up with no name for what the Dwarven outpost/city will be called, as I would much rather here from others before I even went to that step. I feel that with this outpost/city in the Briar Hills of Kara, we can truly establish the background and what not of the Dwarven people.

What I mean, is that the description of the Dwarven race in The Races of Erdeor was all too detailed and has given way to imagination and other research to truly determine what it is to be a Dwarf. I feel that given enough effort and dedication, we, as writers, can truly make the Dwarven race into something great.

So onto the finer details, I'm really hoping for some cooperation and feedback from other Dwarf writers so that I don't feel that I'm controlling everything, but I have come up with a general idea guide us along. I've gotten the information below from various resources and have attempted to bring them together into one coherent culture to put by the Dwarves.

---------------------

It's been established by the Administrators and Moderators of the site that Dwarves are:


"-Taller than a halfling but not as tall as a man, a dwarf's beard is his pride and joy second only to his
weapon. Not created by any God, the dwarves came into being when life energies mixed with the earth
itself, and so their connection with Erdeor runs as deep as their mined network of caverns. They are
a hardworking and hard drinking race, strong and durable and can survive near most anything. The
only thing they might like more than drinking is killing goblins. They are master craftsmen in
metalworking, stone, and wood. They take great care in their work, creating structures and weapons
that would rival an elf's in beauty, and is matched by none in power and strength."

However, I would like to add bits here and there to go into further detail about the Culture and and truly elaborate. For instance:

"Believed in their own set of Gods (different from those of other beings):
_________-King of the Gods
_________-God/dess of Stone
_________-God/dess of Water
_________-God/dess of Fire
_________-God/dess of the earth"
[The Inheritance: Dwarven Gods]

Why don't we do something along the lines as to what was portrayed in the Inheritance, whereas the Dwarven people believed in Gods and Goddesses that were not those of the other species? I know that, truly, Ralaeth, Quetzaya, and Cera are the true Gods and Goddesses of the site right now, but I don't see why Dwarves can't have a belief system that doesn't involve them by name. It is said in the site's very own description of the the Dwarf that they were not formed by any God or Goddess so this would not lead them to believe in the current deities in character in any fashion, at least by my understanding.

it kind of goes along with the world today. There are many beliefs as to how things came to be and they all vary, so the Dwarves' beliefs should be allowed to vary from that of the other species', that's just my thought at least.

Another aspect that we might be able to the Dwarven culture could be a caste system in which families and individuals are classified accordingly to their cast. What I am talking about was actually scene in Bioware's game, Dragonage: Origins. However, the system I propose is not near as harsh as was portrayed in that game as one would be able to effectively more up and down through the caste system.


"Caste System (rankings and the like):
-Highest to Lowest-
Paragon ()-
Noble ()-
Warrior ()-
Artisan ()-
Smith ()-
Miner ()-
Merchant ()-
Servant ()-
Casteless ()-"
[Dragonage: Origins]

[color=#CCCC66]You can see I have gone to the point of listing the general caste listing, but what I would hope to do is place a specific "Dwarven" name for each respective caste. However, there would be something completely different about the "Paragon" caste, at least in my eyes. I would hope that there would only be allowed to be a single living Paragon at a time as I view a Paragon as one above the ranking of King/Queen, yet below the ranking of God/Goddess. The Paragon, in general, would have complete authority, but would not exercise it radically as it would be the job of the elected king/queen of the noble caste to rule the Dwarven people. In other words, the Paragon would be there for guidance to all and to exercise a power check on the ruling King/Queen.

Also I think that we could maybe add to the description of the race as being more . . . [.color]

Dwarves are known for their great infrastructures and cities built deep beneath the surface of
Erdeor along with their adavancements in technology. However, though they were once able to use
Magic as well as humans, over the years, it has since faded from their list of abilities and have,
instead, gained a resistance to many forms of it.
With being stout in appearance, though, they are not known for their swiftness nor their agility.
Instead, they rely more heavily on the power of the blows of their weaponry to knock their foes
about.

[color=#CCCC66]--------------------

Well, I'm all ears to hear your thoughts would love for you, whether you be a God/Goddess or fellow Dwarf writer, to tear it apart and give what you think. I just really love Dwarves and would love to see them go a step beyond the rest (not necessarily more powerful, but established per se) <---if that makes any sense. I am in no sense trying to dis-empower the Gods/Goddesses (Current Administrators and Moderators) by proposing that the Dwarven people believe in a separate set of deities.
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Crom Storm-Heart

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:47 pm

I am in the very beginning stages of something similar with the Orcs. My job isn't as enormous as yours because we know that the god of the orcs is Ralaeth but he and I have been working closely putting together a truly detailed portrait of what it means to be an orc on this site. I would be happy to help in any way I can. I love dwarves also, and in settings where orcs are LotR style I default to dwarf as my race of choice. I am fantasy racist against elves lol. If you ever want an extra head coming up with lore, feel free to hit me on yahoo @tarztulkaz or on skype @ danielJPdaugherty.
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Crom Storm-Heart

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:49 pm

I meant to include this in the other post, but there is no edit function. This offer is good for anyone else as well, on another site i had the title of Loremaster for my lore junkie habits and I really enjoy fleshing out a culture, so I am willing to help anyone with that.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:52 pm

Thanks for the offer, Crom. And I found that bit out about not being to edit and somehow when I tried just going back via the back tab of the browser it posted this topic over, which I find strange. Anyways, thanks again.
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Thoren rak Ingeitum

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 2:58 am

Sounds like as good a place as any to build our outpost. As far as the gods thing goes I'm thinking maybe we just go a little more simple and just create one dwarven god to worship. And as for the castes I don't think that they should necessarily be ranked in any sort of highness to lowness, because it's kind of hard to say if artisians merchents or smiths are higher than each other, know what I mean?
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:31 am

I can see where you're coming from on your opinion(s). For one, maybe "caste" wasn't the best term to identify the classes and really, ranking them may have really been a bad decision on my part. However, I still believe that there needs to be some kind of ranking to ensure that there is some kind of authority, as is the Paragon and King/Queen thing.

.....I just got to thinking and maybe we can keep about the castes but make them more of clan per se. A respective clan is decisive in one area, (say smithing, miner, merchant, or artisen) and and by the clan they fall into determines their lifestyle in a sense. Therefore, in the way that I am thinking, we strip away rankings other than Paragon, King/Queen, and Casteless which could then be determined as something like they committed a crime so bad that disgraced the Dwarven people as a whole that they were cast out of the Dwarven society. I don't know, it's just a thought right now, but maybe it could work.

Point of interest number two, the multiple Gods/Goddesses vs a single deity. Personally I like the idea of multiple Gods/Goddesses, but I can see how it would cause problems and then inevitably disputes. Dropping it to a single god/goddess could definitely prove for the better of the culture, so I agree with you there, so maybe we go along with that.

So, if everything is worked out, we should go about possibly declaring a name for the Dwarven Outpost. That way we could set something in motion and maybe too giving the God of the dwarves a name. However, this is only possible if there are no objections from the Moderator(s) and/or Admin(s) of this site which I would hope they would post in this thread if they had any.
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Deran Swift Blood

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:12 am

hey Ekksvar, if you do the whole non-magical dwarves, you should at least make it so you guys have clerics. The Dwarves in the forgotten realms world dont work with magic, but they do have clerics to battle any magic users that could cause them harm. also in the thing about the gods i believe the eragon dwarves had alot and the forgotten realms dwarves have 3, so i think you could work it out to work without any types of problems Smile just my opinion anyway lol ill prolly end up makin a dwarf cleric if you go that route Smile
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:04 am

To be completely honest, I'm really waiting to see what the Admin(s) and Moderator(s) have to say and see if I'm in the clear. And actually, I was thinking about that. If I didn't make it clear, I kind of got rid of those clans/castes/classes for warrior and what not as I really consider that virtually all able Dwarves would be capable warriors if needed. Therefore, I would group clerics into the each clan's set of warriors and what not.

And thinking of it that way, I know that several Gods/Goddesses could work, but I don't want it to seem like I'm undermining what the current Admin(s) and Moderator(s) are putting into play. I'd truly love to go with the multiple deities approach, but I'd need for it to work in the better interests of the site here.

and to recap:

Dwarves wrote:

[color=#CCCC66]Taller than a halfling but not as tall as a man, a dwarf's beard is his pride and joy second only to his
weapon. Not created by any God, the dwarves came into being when life energies mixed with the earth
itself, and so their connection with Erdeor runs as deep as their mined network of caverns. They are
a hardworking and hard drinking race, strong and durable and can survive near most anything. The
only thing they might like more than drinking is killing goblins. They are master craftsmen in
metalworking, stone, and wood. They take great care in their work, creating structures and weapons
that would rival an elf's in beauty, and is matched by none in power and strength.

Dwarves are known for their great infrastructures and cities built deep beneath the surface of Erdeor along with their advancements in technology. However, though they were once able to use Magic as well as humans, over the years, it has since faded from their list of abilities and have, instead, gained a resistance to many forms of it. With being stout in appearance, though, they are not known for their swiftness nor their agility. Instead, they rely more heavily on the power of the blows of their weaponry to knock their foes about.

Gods/Goddesses wrote:
Believed in their own set of Gods (different from those of other beings):
_________-King of the Gods
_________-God/dess of Stone
_________-God/dess of Water
_________-God/dess of Fire
_________-God/dess of the earth"

It is said in the site's very own description of the the Dwarf that they were not formed by any God or Goddess so this would not lead them to believe in the current deities in character in any fashion, at least by my understanding.

Castes/Clans/Classes wrote:
"Caste System (rankings and the like):
-Highest to Lowest-
Paragon ()- The Dwarven Paragon is the highest ranking the any Dwarf in the flesh can reach. A Paragon's duty is to be the official guidance above any authority, living directly unto the Gods and Goddesses and serving as a check on the power of the current ruling King/Queen. The Paragon is in no power to take over as King/Queen unless the leadership is so far corrupt that it has been deemed necessary to do so. A dwarf in this position is more or less second only to the gods though is not an acting ruler of the people.
King/Queen ()- This position is self explanatory and its obligation is to the ruling of the Dwarven people and to the maintaining of civility in the society. The power embedded in the rights as the elected King/Queen is above all other power minus that of the Gods and the Paragon. A constitution of sorts will be drawn up later to further explain the limitations of this position and how its power can, and will, be checked.
----------
Artisan ()- One of the five Dwarven clans that make up the Dwarven Society. This clan's true art and specialization is that of an artisan with regards to building structures and architectural design.
Smith (Ingeitum)- One of the five Dwarven clans that make up Dwarven society. This clan's true art and specialization is smithing (whether it be from stone or ore, or any other material).
Miner ()- One of the five Dwarven clans that make up the Dwarven Society. This clan's true art and specialization is in that of mining stone and ore and other materials.
Merchant ()- One of the five Dwarven clans that make up the Dwarven Society. This clan's true art and specialization is in that of merchant craft. These clansman partake to selling and purchasing materials and crafts.
Farming/Herding ()- One of the five Dwarven clans that make up the Dwarven Society. This clan's true art and specialization is in that of farming crops and cultivating livestock.
----------
Casteless ()- As a casteless dwarf, one has committed unforgivable crimes against the society and has been stripped of claims to kinship. Dwarves in this baring caring no value and are considered outcast and scum.

You can see I have gone to the point of listing the general caste listing, but what I would hope to do is place a specific "Dwarven" name for each respective caste. However, there would be something completely different about the "Paragon" caste, at least in my eyes. I would hope that there would only be allowed to be a single living Paragon at a time as I view a Paragon as one above the ranking of King/Queen, yet below the ranking of God/Goddess. The Paragon, in general, would have complete authority, but would not exercise it radically as it would be the job of the elected king/queen of the noble caste to rule the Dwarven people. In other words, the Paragon would be there for guidance to all and to exercise a power check on the ruling King/Queen.
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Thoren rak Ingeitum

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:45 pm

I think it all sounds good. As far as naming thigs goes I will be of absolutely no help since dwarven names just aren't my specialty. And maybe we go with like three gods. A father god, a stone god, and an general earth god. since those are kind of the most important things to dwarves. Or maybe instead of elemental gods there is a god for each class. Like a god of smiths, and merchants and such. And as much as I like the idea of Dwarven Clerics, it seems kind of pointless if we're resistant to magic as it is.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:17 pm

I understand that about resistance and all that yada yada yada, so maybe we scratch the resistance part and maybe dwarves just have limited comprehension of magic and thus utilize Dwarven Clerics to combat their ineffectiveness in such areas.

I do like the idea of Clerics and would really enjoy seeing them to be utilized effectively in the Dwarven ranks and maybe even declare it as that it is the King/Queen's job to support an army and maybe there could be a High Cleric that reported directly to the King/Queen, but headed the clerics as a whole.

So . . .


Paragon
l
King/Queen -----------------------High Cleric
l--------------------------l l
Clan Chief General Clerics
l l
Clansmen Soldiers

That's just a general idea and I'm not 100% certain that it will actually work, but my hopes are that by posting it here we can fully work out the kinks and get this thing up and running.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:18 pm

scratch that attempt to make a chart. It certainly didn't work.
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Thoren rak Ingeitum

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:22 pm

Yes, charts don't like you at all. but anyway, I like the idea of clerics and the high cleric and all so I agree with us doing that. Have them head the clerics but still be subject to the rule of the King/Queen (we don't wan tthem getting too full of themselves) Also probably have a head of each clan that also reports to the kind/queen?
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 8:40 pm

That's what I tried to say. Now let me try this again . . . .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Code:
         Paragon
             |
         King/Queen -----------------------------------   High Cleric
              |                                                |
       |--------------------------|                            |
   Clan Chief                  General                        Clerics
       |                          |
   Clansmen                    Soldiers

Maybe?
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Thoren rak Ingeitum

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:14 pm

Much better. I like it
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Ralaeth
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:26 pm

Not to crush your lore creation, I love to see races getting fleshed out, but dwarves are not religious. They are pragmatic and worldly, and honestly cannot be bothered to give the gods the time of day.

They really don't have a clerical order or any religious system. The closest they come to worshiping anything is their constant need to craft and create, and their desire to possess precious metals and stones.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:31 pm

Okay, no problem then, Ral. We can completely scratch that bit about Gods/Goddesses then. Thanks for letting that be known. I've been hoping one of you would say something and let us know. So we'll just cast that bit out and have them as Godless Heathens, lol.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:34 pm

Good point, although I would argue that that depends on the dwarves you are looking at. I think more of what we're coming at is giving names to the desire to craft, create, and own, if you understand where I'm coming from. Not gods in the traditional sense but rather as a name to our ideals. As for the religious order, that's not exactly what the Clerics are (although we should probably use a different name) really all they are are our version of mages. Or at least that's sort of where I was trying to get at.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:36 am

Whenever you get this all fleshed out, I am more than ready to start writing. Smile
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Thoren rak Ingeitum

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:22 pm

Three dwarves=Instant epicness. I am quite excited to actually start writing this stufff out.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:48 am

um 4 dawrves. im makin my dwarf tomorrow Smile
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Ralaeth
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:17 pm

Thoren rak Ingeitum wrote:
Good point, although I would argue that that depends on the dwarves you are looking at. I think more of what we're coming at is giving names to the desire to craft, create, and own, if you understand where I'm coming from. Not gods in the traditional sense but rather as a name to our ideals. As for the religious order, that's not exactly what the Clerics are (although we should probably use a different name) really all they are are our version of mages. Or at least that's sort of where I was trying to get at.

Dwarves are pretty anti-mystical. The closest they come to magic is legendary crafted items which have special powers.
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Deran Swift Blood

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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:03 pm

obviously you've never read anything from forgotten realm's writer R.A. Salvatore. He has Dwarven Clerics in his books. Also I've seen Dwarven Paladins in other books. So not all Dwarves are anti-mystical..........
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:47 pm

Deran Swift Blood wrote:
obviously you've never read anything from forgotten realm's writer R.A. Salvatore. He has Dwarven Clerics in his books. Also I've seen Dwarven Paladins in other books. So not all Dwarves are anti-mystical..........

Obviously this is not forgotten realms and I am not R. A. Salvatore. Age of Conflict is an original setting created by myself, Quetzaya and Cera. While dwarves of other settings may very well be magical, ours are not. The dwarves of Erdeor are pragmatic, non-religious, and literally spawned from the bones of the world.

Dwarves of other settings differ. So do other Orcs, Elves, and Lizard People. If you really want that type of dwarf, find a forgotten realms RP.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:42 pm

I totally understand that but the way you were sounding was that no dwarves anywhere used magic at all.
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PostSubject: Re: In the Midst of Dwarves   Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:53 am

Now now, we aren't trying to argue with gods here, we're just trying to work out our society and all that such. I have no problems being antimythical and all that, I just thought we'd toss the idea out there and see what happens. obviously not an approved idea so we move on (although legendary items now begin my brain in motion....) Do you happen to have some ideas already for some legendary items or can we sort of craft them out of our brains and add them to what we're doing, possiblly having one legendary item per clan, or some sort of special warrior group that all have mythical weapons, or some other random thing that we think of to add some awesomeness and a little mythicalness without breaking the bounds of the dwarven society.
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